74 replies to this topic

[Eric Fong]

As the title said, you don't need to create a new thread just for a one or two suggestion.

I will start.

You can click on one of the combine soldier and fps control him until you switch back to bird view or he die.

Sound bad?

[AndY]

Eric Fong, on 02 July 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

As the title said, you don't need to create a new thread just for a one or two suggestion.

I will start.

You can click on one of the combine soldier and fps control him until you switch back to bird view or he die.

Sound bad?

Hey Eric,

We've considered that. Overwatch offers pretty fast-paced gameplay. In other words, a single Combine soldier won't survive long enough for you to have time to take control and do some damage to the opposite team.

[Halsh]

Will units like the Strider also suffer from the short life expectancy? If there're a few units that are essentially "bosses", perhaps apply it to just those, rather than every run-of-the-mill fodder soldier.

Will the RTS player have any kind of FoW/information denial? Information is vital in RTS games, and allowing the FPS players to, perhaps to a great detriment to themselves in some way, deny the RTS player information could add a little extra depth.

e.g. The RTS players blow up a communications center, having to take a detour from the original route, but denying the RTS player certain abilities/information on the players in areas where there's a communications blackout. Sure, that'd require there to be a trigger in the map to cause this to happen, but that was the first thing I could think of.

[AndY]

Halsh, on 02 July 2010 - 11:22 PM, said:

Will units like the Strider also suffer from the short life expectancy? If there're a few units that are essentially "bosses", perhaps apply it to just those, rather than every run-of-the-mill fodder soldier.

Will the RTS player have any kind of FoW/information denial? Information is vital in RTS games, and allowing the FPS players to, perhaps to a great detriment to themselves in some way, deny the RTS player information could add a little extra depth.

e.g. The RTS players blow up a communications center, having to take a detour from the original route, but denying the RTS player certain abilities/information on the players in areas where there's a communications blackout. Sure, that'd require there to be a trigger in the map to cause this to happen, but that was the first thing I could think of.

Yep, definitely something we considered as well, but haven't implemented yet. We'll probably start a discussion about this soon and get the community's feedback.

Sticking to the HL2 universe, we've thought of Combine scanners as a means for the RTS player to be able to "see" in certain areas. He could send a few of them out on patrol, they'd report any rebel forces in the area, and the rebels would be able to shoot them down, "blinding" the RTS player. Just a thought. :)

[Halsh]

You mean those ever annoying flying lightbulbs that make you blind if you don't give them candy? ... I like


I remember seeing in one of the screens something about hacking a terminal: was that just objective based hacking, e.g. go here, hack this, get candy, or was it an optional objective for the FPS gamers to hamper the RTS player in some manner? It looks like it could be both, so I'm throwing it out there that there be some way for the FPS players to obtain information on the RTS player: it's not fair one side has effectively unlimited information gathering impunity; if there's any for of research, it could reveal what's being researched or randomly display certain stuff thats been unlocked. Just throwing it out

[Firespray]

Hrm. Cool thread.
Well, just a simple suggestion for perhaps an ability. Late in HL2 there were scanners synths that took pictures, but they could drop hopper mines. I was perhaps thinking of a mass amount of them fly by and drop hopper mines over an area so it would be harder to pass.

[Tucker]

Eric Fong, on 02 July 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

You can click on one of the combine soldier and fps control him until you switch back to bird view or he die.

Should be a special ability that can't be used often.

It should be a pre set soldier, not just click one and BAM, you're in.
Something more like when you're able to use it, press a button BESIDE the spawn button and you will have the ability to control it, but not be necessary.
Also, elites only.

[Whitebird]

Tucker, on 03 July 2010 - 04:57 AM, said:

Should be a special ability that can't be used often.

It should be a pre set soldier, not just click one and BAM, you're in.
Something more like when you're able to use it, press a button BESIDE the spawn button and you will have the ability to control it, but not be necessary.
Also, elites only.

Maybe only a special leader that's fpsable?

anyway, my suggestion:
A special gamemode where there are two parties (rebel vs combine, both in rts) and that they both have other teammembers that can join in fps and work along the npc's

[Eric Fong]

You are right, i guess only the combine elite can be control via fps.

I found another game using STG, TPS and FPS at same time.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iB0ulpSthCU

[AndY]

Firespray, on 03 July 2010 - 04:10 AM, said:

Hrm. Cool thread.
Well, just a simple suggestion for perhaps an ability. Late in HL2 there were scanners synths that took pictures, but they could drop hopper mines. I was perhaps thinking of a mass amount of them fly by and drop hopper mines over an area so it would be harder to pass.

It's in the works. :)

[BMT]

Firespray, on 03 July 2010 - 04:10 AM, said:

Hrm. Cool thread.
Well, just a simple suggestion for perhaps an ability. Late in HL2 there were scanners synths that took pictures, but they could drop hopper mines. I was perhaps thinking of a mass amount of them fly by and drop hopper mines over an area so it would be harder to pass.

Definitely would look cool as well as making the players panic a bit if the drop was timed well, good idea indeed.

[Outbreak]

So from the looks of it we can go with some big flashy abilities on the combine side of things, and to counter that some crazy awesome McGuyver crap from the rebels. That being the case I propose strider armadas, which our rebels can counter by using that rubber band, paper clip, the little metal band that covers the round thing that makes lighters childproof, and some duct tape to make a heavy. No I did not mistype, i mean a full grown "Your whole team is babies!" yelling Russian psychopath with a mini gun. But all hilarity aside Adding in abilities and skills to games is a huge headache and require hours and hours of testing and tweaking to ensure balance, and then you have to think about balance in a game where it can be anywhere form 1v1 to 1v7, I mean do you really think it would be fair for the combine to have the ability to effectively carpet bomb an entire area when he is only fighting 3 people? My point is that in a game where a major variable like the number of people playing will stay static it is infinitely easier to add in things like skills and abilities, but when something as important as the number of players in the map can change at random throughout the course of a game then it becomes next to impossible to balance something like that out.

[Halsh]

I think a big part of abilities will be what you need to sacrifice to use them, and what the map is like.

Assuming there's a resource-based model for ability usage and unit spawning, the things like carpet bombing an area would require more resources than say, a 4 squad of fodder soldiers spawning in plain view. Also, good map making will make or break this mod I feel: if there're abilities like carpet bombing and there's no viable means to hide or escape it through player skill then it's just a glorified "I WIN" button.

[cheesydud]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have the Combine player be able to earn "resources" at a faster rate or earn a large amount of resources for completing an objective. Or denying an objective from the rebels.

[DaFox]

AndY, on 03 July 2010 - 01:09 AM, said:

Sticking to the HL2 universe, we've thought of Combine scanners as a means for the RTS player to be able to "see" in certain areas. He could send a few of them out on patrol, they'd report any rebel forces in the area, and the rebels would be able to shoot them down, "blinding" the RTS player. Just a thought.

I think the scanners would work perfectly as a scout of sorts, Basically i'm assuming that the RTS player will have line of sight/fog of war type effects going on. They would not have to be first person I don't think, just fly one into a room prior to sending your units in to see whats in there kind of deal.

[Tucker]

I was thinking instead of scanners, how about deployable cameras that can be deployed by squads? Scanners die way too easily. Cameras have alot more health.

[dsi1]

The scanners we see patrolling the streets at the beginning of HL2 are passive, no Overwatch/anti-citizen action was occurring during the first times you see them. When we see the scanners launching from the Citadel, and later when they pass over Eli's base below the dam, we see them being mass produced (and used en mass) and working from a distance, Alyx knows we've been spotted even though the scanners are far off in the distance, far out of normal weapon range.

I'd imagine, during action like we'll see in Overwatch, they'd be dispatched by the ton and work mainly above the rooftops, with a few units going down in close to look into buildings or such. In terms of gameplay I think they should be built by the squad load (5 or 6 at a time or so), and you just ordering them into a general area, instead of a move icon you'd have a move area, the default move area would give them a large area to work in and they'd work at a high altitude as well, with actions to go closer to the ground to give you the capability to look into buildings by the windows. (We never see them go inside buildings, and actually playing as one in MP it proved very hard to get inside buildings, let alone move around inside them freely) They would also be cheap to make, possibly even the cheapest.

At their default high altitude you can't see into buildings but, they are very hard to shoot at, or see in the first place (no one ever looks up unless they've been threatened from above recently), ordering them down to ground level makes them an easy target, but gives you intel you wouldn't have otherwise.

Not to mention other intel devices like cameras and lord knows what the Combine have up in orbit. (A multi-universal race that can't travel through space? Hah)

I'm almost against using FoW in general, unless it is something caused by the anti-citizens themselves. (take out cameras etc)

[Halsh]

Well the only reason I'd like FoW or such similar information denial to be implimented, as I've already said, is because it's unfair to offer the RTS player all the information they can get with no cost to aquire it. To make it "easy" to impliment, perhaps the FoW would simply be you wouldn't know where they are outside of areas you have surveillance of; whether this be camera drones, a squad patroling or a strider camping the exit of a tunnel. If the FoW has 3 states: can't see anything, can detect life signs (know where they are but that's it) and can clearly detect life forms (You can see their models, from that where they're looking, what they have, etc), then the camera drones don't need to go into buildings, they can just "detect" them if they're inside, they just can't tell you anything more than "Here they are, deploy appropriate counter measures.".

[dsi1]

I was thinking maybe, at the beginning of action, having the Overwatch have full view of the map, cameras would already be inside buildings and passive scanners would've already been out in the streets as is normal, the Rebels would have to carve out their territory by destroying cameras and scanners. Maybe the Rebel's spawn area/base should already be in the FoW. Also I like your idea for FoW, maybe scanners at altitude can tell there is something in that building/underground, but not sure what or even how many of them, and have full view at ground level.

I don't think there should ever be a black area though, have it be based on last intel, say one Rebel broke into a building and destroyed the cameras, you would know that 'x' seconds ago 1 Rebel with 'x' equipment entered the building, but you wouldn't know if anyone else entered it since then, or even if anyone was in it until you got scanners into the area. You wouldn't even know if they erected a barricade or something if they cleared the streets, just a grey'd out view of the area as it was last known.

[Halsh]

As long as it's easily identifyable that it isn't currently viewed, either by tinting it a different colour, outlining it with a contrasting colour or some other visual cue I don't see any problem with a "last seen here" FoW.

With regards to the Overwatch already having map view, that'd be up to the mapper to pre-place them I believe. And there wouldn't be a "black" area, you'd be able to see the terrain and such, but you wouldn't be able to see movement, either player or props, within this area until you have something come along and check.