8 replies to this topic

[Sabre]

This is a pet peeve of mine, and it's an easy one to change so I thought I would speak up.

I have a problem with physics in online games because they tend to lag and behave strangly.

The best example of this is in Canals when jumping over the slime. I always take damage. Sometimes I get lucky and can bounce off an object, sometime I get unlucky and get stuck in the objects. Most of the time, I hit the object, it jitters away from me and I land in the toxic waste. Why not make them static?

Placing turrets in Crossroads is also a pain. Generally speaking, there are about 4 main places they are set up, with an occation variant. In the buncker (2), under the snipers and on the stairs. Trying to place them is fiddly, only to have them be knocked over by a sniper, a headcrab that you didn't notice or someone trying to help. There are various ways to fix this issue. A snap-to whenever it's within a certain distence and being held would work, allowing free movement to place them whereever you want, but making it easy to place them in common places.

Yes, there is a concern of making the jumping part easier, or losing the ability to rotate the turret just so, I think the benifits of not having the team sink 99% of the time, or being able to stand the turret up without it being a major project far outweigh the cons.

[rickinator9]

Sabre, on 14 February 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

This is a pet peeve of mine, and it's an easy one to change so I thought I would speak up.

I have a problem with physics in online games because they tend to lag and behave strangly.

The best example of this is in Canals when jumping over the slime. I always take damage. Sometimes I get lucky and can bounce off an object, sometime I get unlucky and get stuck in the objects. Most of the time, I hit the object, it jitters away from me and I land in the toxic waste. Why not make them static?

Placing turrets in Crossroads is also a pain. Generally speaking, there are about 4 main places they are set up, with an occation variant. In the buncker (2), under the snipers and on the stairs. Trying to place them is fiddly, only to have them be knocked over by a sniper, a headcrab that you didn't notice or someone trying to help. There are various ways to fix this issue. A snap-to whenever it's within a certain distence and being held would work, allowing free movement to place them whereever you want, but making it easy to place them in common places.

Yes, there is a concern of making the jumping part easier, or losing the ability to rotate the turret just so, I think the benifits of not having the team sink 99% of the time, or being able to stand the turret up without it being a major project far outweigh the cons.

I'm pretty sure this is an overwatch issue. In HL2DM, physics are doing nicely, while in OW they are laggy. The canals issue is understandable, but why fix it if 90% of the players just rush over the slime taking 30 damage.

[AndY]

rickinator9, on 14 February 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure this is an overwatch issue. In HL2DM, physics are doing nicely, while in OW they are laggy. The canals issue is understandable, but why fix it if 90% of the players just rush over the slime taking 30 damage.

Considering we don't have access to the part of the code that controls how physics behave, I don't see how it could be an Overwatch issue. You also have to keep in mind that OW doesn't run the same version of the engine that HL2DM does.

I don't agree with the comments about Canals. As Sabre mentioned, making them static would defeat the purpose of having those areas at all, as it'd be easy to get across. The idea is for you to be clumsy and run through it while avoiding both enemy fire and hopper mines.

As for the turrets, I agree that they're a pain, but I wouldn't blame it on a physics issue. What we should do is prevent them from being knocked over so easily. Headcrabs in Crossroads knock them over the most, so if we can just prevent that from happening, I think it'll be a lot less annoying. In other words, I don't think rewriting the physics engine or disabling it entirely just to solve one problem is a good idea; there are better solutions.

We'll add the knocking over issue to our list, but we've pretty much wrapped up 1.5.0 so I can't guarantee that a fix will make it in this release.

[Sabre]

Well, the turrets issue is understanible, as annoiying as it is.

The canals issue though. If the goal is to have players run through the slime, why have the debris at all? It's a beginners trap, making you think you can get across if your careful or skilled when you can't. If it's for decoration, use things that you obviously can't jump on like small planks and car tires, or at very least stuff that isn't used for getting across these kinds of areas in Half Life 2.

[AndY]

Sabre, on 14 February 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

The canals issue though. If the goal is to have players run through the slime, why have the debris at all? It's a beginners trap, making you think you can get across if your careful or skilled when you can't. If it's for decoration, use things that you obviously can't jump on like small planks and car tires, or at very least stuff that isn't used for getting across these kinds of areas in Half Life 2.

You definitely can get across unscathed if you're careful, but obviously that all depends on the surprises the GM/OP has waiting for you.

[WAXT]

Sabre, on 14 February 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Well, the turrets issue is understanible, as annoiying as it is.

The canals issue though. If the goal is to have players run through the slime, why have the debris at all? It's a beginners trap, making you think you can get across if your careful or skilled when you can't.

AndY, on 14 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

You definitely can get across unscathed if you're careful, but obviously that all depends on the surprises the GM/OP has waiting for you.

Andy's right, you can get across unscathed -and that's exactly the point of the debris. It's just that most people rush through because they're taking fire and/or afraid of what lies beneath. (ie, hopper-mines.)

Have you tried running the game with your settings turned down? Maybe that will help the game run more smoothly.

[Coppermantis]

I think instead of debris it may be a better idea to have small displacement islands, thus eliminating the shaky physics problems and still allowing players to cross without taking damage. Usually, the OW has a trillion metrocops and scanners at that point so if you take a while to time your jump right you get shot to pieces.

[AndY]

I suppose the next question is: is this thread for physics in general or that one section in Canals specifically?

[Sabre]

AndY, on 15 February 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

I suppose the next question is: is this thread for physics in general or that one section in Canals specifically?

The former, but both in a way. Any game critical physics objects count, but the canals is the most obvious and the worst offender. The propain on Breach can flip out as well, but it rarely costs the game. Same with the side tunnel getting blocked on the first part Canal. The turrets on Crossroads as already mentioned.

The issue, at least imo, is that physics aren't relible beyond eye candy and the occational hazard. Having mission critical physics objects leads to failing a mission not because you did badly, or the OP did well, but because the physics freaked out at an bad moment. I seem to be the minority on this though.