21 replies to this topic

[DuckSauce]

Hey guys,

Will be dropping feedback and other stuff here.
Haven't been able to play with people yet, but here's some stuff I wanna get out:

1. A grenade spawn on ow_breach is bugged:
The grenade spawns here:


But will roll down to here each time:
\

Only to respawn afterwards and do it again, the respawning would be because it's moved from it's spot, getting the respawn noise every so often is kinda annoying as overwatch.

2. One of the combine knocked over one of my turrets, seems it can't be set-up again, one possible fix is to mess with the collision groups so combine can't knock it over, or allow Overwatch to somehow "respawn" it. But I guess the latter is disabled for a reason...

3. It seems there's at least 3 players needed for a proper game, this smells like it could go down the wrong road like Dedacence, which was a great mod, but sitting hours in a server waiting for someone to join just to get a game going is already strange, needing one more is even worse. The straightforward solution would be bots on the resistance team, these will ensure there's always something to play against alone until more people join, I can imagine you have other priorities for now, but eventually a playerbase declines, so it may be worth considering in the long run.

4. There's no quick way to see what weapon your combine troops are using, you need to zoom in and check out their weapon, which seems like a very unconvenient thing to do when actually in action. I'd suggest placing a small weapon icon somewhere near them, I know this is very do-able in Source from my own experiences, so if you need any help with it, I can point you out an easy way to do it. Possibly toggled like the objectives HUD.

5. Does the Team XXX HUD element left over from HL2DM serve any point? It's pretty clear what "team" you're on Seems like a pointless HUD element to me that can be removed in the blink of an eye. Speaking of useless HUD elements, I don't think players will be interested to see the version number while they play, why not just plant it somewhere in the menu instead.

6. When Alt Tabbing out as Overwatch the screen will shift very far outside of the map's range over time, usually to the lower right of the screen. Going to the menu and then Alt Tabbing out seems to fix it. Not really an issue worth fixing I guess, but it makes me think of a key to jump the view to an objective, possibly a way to set your own "saved viewpoints"(shift + numberkey?)

7. From the impressions thread by Halsh I gathered players can't join anymore after a short while, Would like to express my support for something like a warmup or anything to give players time to connect properly.

That was all for now, hope to be able to get on with some european people soon!

[PixilatedPunk]

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

Hey guys,

2. One of the combine knocked over one of my turrets, seems it can't be set-up again, one possible fix is to mess with the collision groups so combine can't knock it over, or allow Overwatch to somehow "respawn" it. But I guess the latter is disabled for a reason...

I have never seen this happen before, Please report this and all issues to the tracker, otherwise they will be lost.

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

3. It seems there's at least 3 players needed for a proper game, this smells like it could go down the wrong road like Dedacence, which was a great mod, but sitting hours in a server waiting for someone to join just to get a game going is already strange, needing one more is even worse. The straightforward solution would be bots on the resistance team, these will ensure there's always something to play against alone until more people join, I can imagine you have other priorities for now, but eventually a playerbase declines, so it may be worth considering in the long run.

This is something we have discussed heavily. I think the main difference here is that in Decadence you could only have up to four players total and if both teams do not have two players then the game is almost not playable. For now the balance in Overwatch is a bit tricky and based on alive player count and cooldowns until we can get other features in place.

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

4. There's no quick way to see what weapon your combine troops are using, you need to zoom in and check out their weapon, which seems like a very unconvenient thing to do when actually in action. I'd suggest placing a small weapon icon somewhere near them, I know this is very do-able in Source from my own experiences, so if you need any help with it, I can point you out an easy way to do it. Possibly toggled like the objectives HUD.

This has been discussed and will be implemented later.

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

5. Does the Team XXX HUD element left over from HL2DM serve any point? It's pretty clear what "team" you're on Seems like a pointless HUD element to me that can be removed in the blink of an eye. Speaking of useless HUD elements, I don't think players will be interested to see the version number while they play, why not just plant it somewhere in the menu instead.

I wont comment on the HUD element. The version number should only be visible on the main menu and not in game. This is a bug and has already been reported on our development bug tracking system.

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

6. When Alt Tabbing out as Overwatch the screen will shift very far outside of the map's range over time, usually to the lower right of the screen. Going to the menu and then Alt Tabbing out seems to fix it. Not really an issue worth fixing I guess, but it makes me think of a key to jump the view to an objective, possibly a way to set your own "saved viewpoints"(shift + numberkey?)

This is known bug previously reported to our internal bug tracking system. I like the idea of saved viewpoints but it would require it's own thread.

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

7. From the impressions thread by Halsh I gathered players can't join anymore after a short while, Would like to express my support for something like a warmup or anything to give players time to connect properly.

Already in the works.

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

That was all for now, hope to be able to get on with some european people soon!

Community please be out going and friendly and talk with others. You know that others in the group have access to Overwatch so strike up a conversation and or get a game going. It can be very easy to start and you would be surprised at how many people can show up.

[Pingu]

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

Hey guys,

Will be dropping feedback and other stuff here.
Haven't been able to play with people yet, but here's some stuff I wanna get out:

1. A grenade spawn on ow_breach is bugged:
The grenade spawns here:
image

But will roll down to here each time:
image

Only to respawn afterwards and do it again, the respawning would be because it's moved from it's spot, getting the respawn noise every so often is kinda annoying as overwatch.

2. One of the combine knocked over one of my turrets, seems it can't be set-up again, one possible fix is to mess with the collision groups so combine can't knock it over, or allow Overwatch to somehow "respawn" it. But I guess the latter is disabled for a reason...

3. It seems there's at least 3 players needed for a proper game, this smells like it could go down the wrong road like Dedacence, which was a great mod, but sitting hours in a server waiting for someone to join just to get a game going is already strange, needing one more is even worse. The straightforward solution would be bots on the resistance team, these will ensure there's always something to play against alone until more people join, I can imagine you have other priorities for now, but eventually a playerbase declines, so it may be worth considering in the long run.

4. There's no quick way to see what weapon your combine troops are using, you need to zoom in and check out their weapon, which seems like a very unconvenient thing to do when actually in action. I'd suggest placing a small weapon icon somewhere near them, I know this is very do-able in Source from my own experiences, so if you need any help with it, I can point you out an easy way to do it. Possibly toggled like the objectives HUD.

5. Does the Team XXX HUD element left over from HL2DM serve any point? It's pretty clear what "team" you're on Seems like a pointless HUD element to me that can be removed in the blink of an eye. Speaking of useless HUD elements, I don't think players will be interested to see the version number while they play, why not just plant it somewhere in the menu instead.

6. When Alt Tabbing out as Overwatch the screen will shift very far outside of the map's range over time, usually to the lower right of the screen. Going to the menu and then Alt Tabbing out seems to fix it. Not really an issue worth fixing I guess, but it makes me think of a key to jump the view to an objective, possibly a way to set your own "saved viewpoints"(shift + numberkey?)

7. From the impressions thread by Halsh I gathered players can't join anymore after a short while, Would like to express my support for something like a warmup or anything to give players time to connect properly.

That was all for now, hope to be able to get on with some european people soon!

1. Will be fixed
2. Allowing the Overwatch to set it up again will not happen because it could have been the rebels that knocked it over. Your first suggestion is good.
3. Right now there isn't may players that have access to the mod but I agree bots would be nice to have. Unfortunately they are very hard to make right so they act decent, especially on objective maps. So I don't think this is something we will see in the nearest time.
4. Good idea. We will see what we can do to make it more obvious.
5. Agree, the messages can be removed. I actually think that is reported but it has been a low priority so far. The version number will be fixed and moved to the main menu only.
6. In later version you will have a minimap that you can use as "jump to viewpoint".
7. "Players joining late" is on the teams discussion board. A better way to handle it will come.

Hope to see you on a server soon

[DuckSauce]

Just 2 more quick things:

8. Why is "create a server" removed from the main menu? Temporary while it's still invite only? (because of the SteamID's?)
9. Combine troops remained in their place where I put them as overwatch, but they will keep relocating when there's manhacks around, might not be much of a issue with people actually playing.

[PixilatedPunk]

DuckSauce, on 15 July 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

9. Combine troops remained in their place where I put them as overwatch, but they will keep relocating when there's manhacks around, might not be much of a issue with people actually playing.

The Combine units move when they take damage.

[elite879]

Yeah what Punk said, the manhacks fly crazy and tend to hit friendly troops, meaning they move around

[DuckSauce]

More feedback coming up now that I've played with people.

First would like to state that I've been playing most of that time with 3 others and while Overwatch did have a clear advantage I felt it did intensify the teamwork alot on the rebel side, the guys with shields became vital to protect another guy that'd be mowing down the combine and moments of seperation became almost Left4Dead like in the sense that venturing too far out on your own ment getting swarmed. I have a feeling that maybe with some additional weaponry for the rebels, the current balance as it is with a 3 rebel vs overwatch situation could become a balanced and challenging experience. Specifically some more nades would help rebels deal with the Overwatch just spawning hordes of combine and unleashing them at once, but there's probably other tools, I've gathered the 2.0.0 version has mortars/gravity gun being expirmented with/worked on, so that may help things alot already. I got to be Overwatch when there were more people(7 on rebels I think) and won at least one round, seemed balanced enough that the rebels can't just overpower the Overwatch by having more players, teamwork still seemed essential to survive their downfall, though they clearly could get farther more easily.

Right on to the rest of the feedback:
10. Ball trap on Citadel seems awfully random, I like the idea but it seems almost unfair to the rebels to get (probably) 1 shotted by it by sheer luck for the Overwatch player, I managed to hit PixelatedPunk(apparently known as the Ball Magnet) yesterday with an extremely lucky hit, felt kinda unfair on my end as all I did was get lucky.

11. Combine sometimes get too close to the doors you can blow up in ow_breach, I'd suggest sticking in a CSoundEnt::InsertSound ( SOUND_DANGER, blabla); call to signal the combine that they should stay away.(it's what grenades and stuff use to warn NPCs to run the fuck away )

12. Overwatch can't see whether manhacks are hurting enemies(no blood) nor does he seem to be capable of seeing the rebels swinging their crowbars(sound is heard, manhacks die, but no animation is played). Can be handy to know if you hurt a rebel so you can track him and finish him off.

13. Turrets seem to drop over rather awfully quick, not sure if that's intended, but in hl2 smg couldn't tip of a turret with just a small burst, yesterday I saw a rebel hit my turret with just a few shot immediatly flipping it over from a distance.(side shot). But this may be intended behaviour, in which case it's alright.

14. An order to tell manhacks/combine to sit tight in a area would be nice, they sometimes have a habit going off chasing rebels when you want to gather up the forces.

15. Combine will melee hit rebels from behind sometimes with the shotgun, which seems silly, since a shotgun blast would have been much more effective, melee seems intended to bat players away if they get too much into the face of the combine, but if the combine approaches a player from behind, then slaps him instead of blowing him away... well... that's odd Maybe a dot check could be enough(if rebel faces away don't use melee when using a shotgun)

The end for now I guess.
Hope it's helpfull, also dropped a bug report in the bug tracker.

[elite879]

Number 14 I agree with completley as it would make ambushes MUUUCH easier.

Also number 13, that was me that nocked the turret over, I'm sure of it

[braddollar]

Isn't there an option to hold the units in a spot, default key period or something?

[DuckSauce]

There is, but I think you need to hold it/keep pushing it to prevent them from wandering off. Not sure how exactly it works but I think it's the same as a sort of "guard" order.
It's also a pretty awkardly bound key, with the game never reminding you about it, I also know alot of people that never check their key options in SourceMods anyway and just expected obvious keys, with any special keys explained before or during play.

[AndY]

HL2's AI was just never designed for multiplayer, so there's plenty that isn't working as intended. We have an entire phase of dev planned for a complete AI overhaul. We'll just need to wait for that.

[elite879]

Yeah the idea of the full stop (or period as Americans call it) is just to stop already moving soldiers. It doesnt actualy make them not move at all.

At least you guys at Overwatch are getting it sorted and maybe some more goodies.

[AndY]

elite879, on 17 July 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah the idea of the full stop (or period as Americans call it) is just to stop already moving soldiers. It doesnt actualy make them not move at all.

At least you guys at Overwatch are getting it sorted and maybe some more goodies.

Plenty.

[DuckSauce]

AndY, on 17 July 2010 - 10:48 AM, said:

HL2's AI was just never designed for multiplayer, so there's plenty that isn't working as intended. We have an entire phase of dev planned for a complete AI overhaul. We'll just need to wait for that.

Yeah, one thing I noticed is when I sent one to flank a guy with a shield, and he kept trying to move back to the front of the shield(the stop thing was handy there though, I stopped him before he could move back again and he scored the kill).

Also:
16. You can't select over a certain amount of troops, this is really annoying when you got a group of em together and when trying to select them all some random troops don't get selected.

[AndY]

DuckSauce, on 17 July 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Yeah, one thing I noticed is when I sent one to flank a guy with a shield, and he kept trying to move back to the front of the shield(the stop thing was handy there though, I stopped him before he could move back again and he scored the kill).

Also:
16. You can't select over a certain amount of troops, this is really annoying when you got a group of em together and when trying to select them all some random troops don't get selected.

I believe the current limit is 12, but since the tests with that system are pretty much done, we can up the limit to a much larger number. I'll add it to the list.

[braddollar]

The problem with the hold command is that the units are hearing things and reacting to the problem. I find that if you are hoping to keep some troops back, it's beneficial to pull them as far away from the activity as possible, so that they won't hear anything and go running off unexpectedly.

[DuckSauce]

braddollar, on 17 July 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

The problem with the hold command is that the units are hearing things and reacting to the problem. I find that if you are hoping to keep some troops back, it's beneficial to pull them as far away from the activity as possible, so that they won't hear anything and go running off unexpectedly.

It'd just be matter of an if statement really(if( order_status == GUARD) ) something along those lines, then return in whatever section of the code the combine troops are supposed to react to sounds and stuff.
For the record, I have been putting combine out in hallways and such where the rebels aren't near, they'll still run out now and then, putting them farther doesn't really help as they become useless to get close to the rebels quikcly and actually deal some damage.

[AndY]

DuckSauce, on 18 July 2010 - 04:10 AM, said:

It'd just be matter of an if statement really(if( order_status == GUARD) ) something along those lines, then return in whatever section of the code the combine troops are supposed to react to sounds and stuff.
For the record, I have been putting combine out in hallways and such where the rebels aren't near, they'll still run out now and then, putting them farther doesn't really help as they become useless to get close to the rebels quikcly and actually deal some damage.

Yeah, we've actually discussed a "stance" system (aggressive stance, defensive stance, etc..).

Aggressive = Go out and kill
Defensive = Stand still, take cover and wait

[DuckSauce]

AndY, on 18 July 2010 - 09:20 AM, said:

Yeah, we've actually discussed a "stance" system (aggressive stance, defensive stance, etc..).

Aggressive = Go out and kill
Defensive = Stand still, take cover and wait

[arnie]DO EEEEET[/arnie]

Sounds good!
A stationary stance may be usefull too, force a combine to absolute not move(not take cover either), could ensure absolutely no movement from them when you are gathering them, or if you're an evil tactician you could make one of the combine stand somewhere to lure the rebels over

[PixilatedPunk]

DuckSauce, on 18 July 2010 - 04:10 AM, said:

For the record, I have been putting combine out in hallways and such where the rebels aren't near, they'll still run out now and then, putting them farther doesn't really help as they become useless to get close to the rebels quikcly and actually deal some damage.

Keep in mind that a few of us know how the AI works and we purposefully shoot in the direction of the Combine to draw them out so you cannot gather them up thus minimizing the effectiveness of your overwhelming odds strategy.