88 replies to this topic

[Instant Loser]

Here's my entry for the contest, currently named ow_outbreak! I've refrained from posting it here because I didn't know if it would be ready in time, but now it seems likely that I'll have something submittable by the 13th.
I haven't thought about the storyline very much, but it's generally about escaping from Nova Prospekt (I know this is a popular setting for this contest). I'm trying to put a lot of choice and replayability into this map.

There are three jail rooms in which to start (idea stolen from http://community.ove...-overwatch-map/), each with a different simple puzzle and starting weapon:  ow_outbreak0000.jpg   240.4K   38 downloads
However, there's not any way to get rid of the starting crowbar once the map has started. It'd be nice if there were a way to keep people from joining in the middle of a round, but it's not that big of a problem for this map.
Anyway, after solving the puzzle, the players will group together and hold out in this room while they slowly force open a sliding door:  ow_outbreak0001.jpg   92.16K   33 downloads
Next, they'll get a choice between an SMG or a shotgun. If the shotgun is too powerful, I'll put less ammo for it in the map.  ow_outbreak0002.jpg   132.67K   25 downloads
The overwatch gets a choice between an antlion guard here  ow_outbreak0013.jpg   151.6K   34 downloads and a sniper here  ow_outbreak0007.jpg   62.43K   46 downloads
They'll scale in difficulty with the number of players, of course. That field in the last screenshot has random mines. The mines go off when the overwatch pushes a button. A sneaky player will be able to get past a distracted overwatch.
Overwatch's view. I'm still messing with the buttons a bit:  ow_outbreak0008.jpg   152.78K   50 downloads  ow_outbreak0010.jpg   99.54K   39 downloads
I haven't done the finale yet, but I'm going to let the overwatch pick from a set of "boss" enemies. I can put in the helicopter, gunship, and elite soldiers right now. I'll put in a strider if it stops shooting out of its foot. I doubt I'll ever get to put in hunters. I'll have triggers to allow the overwatch some degree of control over them.
This map will desperately need playtesting and balancing, but I don't think I'll be able to do that in time.
I know I'm doing a lot of things wrong, such as not blocking out the whole thing first, and accidentally building the map heading west instead of east, and having the whole map be a series of interchangable rooms, but any advice on what I should do (as opposed to what I should have done) would be appreciated.

Oh, does anyone know if mannable turrets are working? I'd like the helicopter and gunship fights to be less similar, but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or it's just the game.

[AndY]

Instant Loser, on 29 November 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

However, there's not any way to get rid of the starting crowbar once the map has started. It'd be nice if there were a way to keep people from joining in the middle of a round, but it's not that big of a problem for this map.

Both are possible. I'm sure one of the other mappers will be able to point out how to have your players start without a crowbar (or just decompile that map from HL2 where Barney tosses you your first crowbar).

As for the joining mid-round, that's configured using the game_settings_ow entity.


Edit: The mountable machine guns only work for NPCs at the moment. Fixing them is on our todo list (as is fixing the Striders).


Welcome to the contest and good luck!

[The Joker]

AndY, on 29 November 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

Both are possible. I'm sure one of the other mappers will be able to point out how to have your players start without a crowbar (or just decompile that map from HL2 where Barney tosses you your first crowbar).

As for the joining mid-round, that's configured using the game_settings_ow entity.


Edit: The mountable machine guns only work for NPCs at the moment. Fixing them is on our todo list (as is fixing the Striders).


Welcome to the contest and good luck!

If you need help with player_equips, I would be happy to assist you. I am an experienced mapper myself, just tell me what you need!

[Instant Loser]

game_player_equip was just what I needed for a different part of the map I don't think I mentioned! Also, I found game_settings_ow on my own not five minutes after posting. I have more questions (and some statments), too.

1. What image hosting site can any of you recommend for posting screenshots? I don't generally share many pictures and just need a quick suggestion.
2. Is there any way at all to have a grate texture that is solid to GM clicks? I've tried many, many different ways to get this to work.
3. Dropships aren't dropping. I can work around this, but it won't look as nice.
4. Is there any way to quiet a thumper down so you can't hear it throughout the entire map?
5. Screen shaking needs to be disabled for the overwatch, I think.
6. Scaling the amount of health with the number of players is impossible.
7. Finding and decompiling the map you mentioned will take a bit of effort. Do you really think that will work?
8. The manhacks will stop being stupid when I get more players, right? I hope so...
9. Who put the "c" in owc_outbreak? What does it stand for?

I've textured, lit, and lightly detailed the outdoor area I showed earlier. All my triggers are working great, no problems there. I've made a finale area, but I'm not particularly happy with it. I just need to light a couple more areas, add a gunship/dropship, get ammo and health where I want it, label and disable GM buttons, fix the problems mentioned above, add an ending, and possibly do some visibility optimization, although that will be moderately harder in overwatch than in regular HL2. Oh, and also do some testing if I can.

[Auxor]

I'm assuming the OWC stands for Overwatch Custom map, so as to differentiate between official maps like Breach and the custom ones.

It only takes like 5 minutes to decompile a Valve sized map.. or at least for me it takes that long.

And if you turn the grates into func_ow_brush or whatever it's called, you can then select "solid to GM clicks: Yes" to make it solid.

You need some air_nodes for the Manhacks to work properly I think.

[Instant Loser]

I tried that a long time ago. The closest I've gotten is using three overlapping, nearly identical brushes. It allows NPC movement, GM clicks, and transparency, but not bullet penetration. I think it's theoretically impossible to have bullets penetrate a brush but not GM clicks without some sort of code change. Ah, well. I'm putting in my version and will fix this if possible in the future.

I have air nodes, but I think I read somewhere that manhacks go insane if there isn't anybody on the resistance team. That's what MINE are doing, anyway.

Maps decompile in seconds for me. I just highly doubt that there's a hidden feature to not spawn with a crowbar. Do standard HL2 maps start with a crowbar automatically? I doubt it, but I don't know.

[braddollar]

Auxor, on 02 December 2010 - 02:54 AM, said:

I'm assuming the OWC stands for Overwatch Custom map, so as to differentiate between official maps like Breach and the custom ones.

My guess is Overwatch Community map.

[Icarus]

Instant Loser, on 02 December 2010 - 02:00 AM, said:

game_player_equip was just what I needed for a different part of the map I don't think I mentioned! Also, I found game_settings_ow on my own not five minutes after posting. I have more questions (and some statments), too.

1. What image hosting site can any of you recommend for posting screenshots? I don't generally share many pictures and just need a quick suggestion.
2. Is there any way at all to have a grate texture that is solid to GM clicks? I've tried many, many different ways to get this to work.
3. Dropships aren't dropping. I can work around this, but it won't look as nice.
4. Is there any way to quiet a thumper down so you can't hear it throughout the entire map?
5. Screen shaking needs to be disabled for the overwatch, I think.
6. Scaling the amount of health with the number of players is impossible.
7. Finding and decompiling the map you mentioned will take a bit of effort. Do you really think that will work?
8. The manhacks will stop being stupid when I get more players, right? I hope so...
9. Who put the "c" in owc_outbreak? What does it stand for?

I've textured, lit, and lightly detailed the outdoor area I showed earlier. All my triggers are working great, no problems there. I've made a finale area, but I'm not particularly happy with it. I just need to light a couple more areas, add a gunship/dropship, get ammo and health where I want it, label and disable GM buttons, fix the problems mentioned above, add an ending, and possibly do some visibility optimization, although that will be moderately harder in overwatch than in regular HL2. Oh, and also do some testing if I can.

1. I use Dropbox for everything nowadays https://www.dropbox.com/
4. Have you tried messing with the Max Audible Distance?

[Instant Loser]

The thumper is one big entity: prop_thumper. The only option on it is "Effect Radius" with a big footnote "EPISODIC ONLY." I have it set to the default 1000, but it's playing well beyond that. It's giving me a headache, actually. I could make a prop_dynamic and ambient_generic, but I wouldn't be able to sync them. I may have to just ignore the constant pounding.

[Instant Loser]

More screnshots!



And now for a bunch of things I've been thinking about:

At this point the map is theoretically playable. There are maybe three more little things I have to fix up and it'll be ready for playtesting.
I guess it couldn't hurt to put in some more traps. I'd put in headcrab canisters, but they wouldn't really fit with the map. The trigger system really isn't that hard to work with once you figure it out. I'm sort of disappointed that my elegant spawning system will be obsolete in a near update, but whatever. I've got some pretty convoluted trigger setups. What is the named entity limit for this? I haven't hit it yet, but I'd like a general idea before I try to set up a map with about 2000 entities like I did in TF2. Would've been great if it would load.

I've got at least reasonable lighting throughout the map, although some places are still pretty dark. I've got textures and a theme for about 60%-70% of the map, but not many decals or models. Triggers are almost completely done.

I have to mess with the button's sizes too. The system for controlling them is sort of unintuitive.

Does anyone have any tips on health/ammo placement? I've been strewing them in the middle of paths, but I think I'll move them in to more alcove-y areas.

Is anybody bored enough to quickly whip up a sign or grafitti or something warning people to keep off the minefield? I'd rather not use an indicator if I don't have to. I can make one myself if I have time.

I was going to put some npc vortigaunts at the end, but it turns out that they aren't completely working. From a distance they look fine, but up close their face gets really twitchy. I don't know how to order them around with triggers, either. Right now the ending is pretty lame.

I've got the towers working the way I want now, too (except for not being able to shoot through the grate). It's pretty complicated. I hope it turns out to be fun.

I'm having trouble deciding if this map is too short or too long. Distance-wise it's pretty long, but there's not much to slow down the rebels.

I think there's too much health for low numbers of players, but too little for high numbers. There's nothing I can do about it, though.

I don't plan to have a task list, at least for the rebels. This isn't really a pre-planned mission. It's more of a riot.

I also need a suggestion for a sound to play while forcing open a metal door. I have one, but it can't loop.

[Auxor]

With ammo and health, it's best to have little areas or alcoves off the side of the main route for the Rebels to recouperate like in Breach. Ammo crates and large health kits should be in places where the OW can easily attack the rebels while they're healing or getting ammo.

For the ending you could have like, the rebels plant a bomb which opens a hole in the ground which allows Antlions to get into the prison and cover their escape.

If you want to slow down the rebels, just do what Breach does where you have a shield door which needs to be hacked at a nearby console. Breach would take like, 2 minutes if it wasn't for the hacking objectives.

The map looks awesome by the way, but the outside section seems a bit empty.

[Psy]

There is no entity limit, per se, but you can only have up to 2048 dynamic entities in a map before it causes the server to crash. This means anything that be changed in real-time such as point_spotlights, env_sprites, player ragdolls, weapons, func_brush_ow, etc. Finding out how many dynamic entities you have is as simple as using the console command cl_showents which will list every single dynamic entity in your map with a number next to it. If you have a value hovering around 2000, you will have to consider reducing your entities.

[Instant Loser]

Auxor, on 03 December 2010 - 05:06 AM, said:

With ammo and health, it's best to have little areas or alcoves off the side of the main route for the Rebels to recouperate like in Breach. Ammo crates and large health kits should be in places where the OW can easily attack the rebels while they're healing or getting ammo.

I'll have to make some of those, then. This could take a while.

Auxor, on 03 December 2010 - 05:06 AM, said:

For the ending you could have like, the rebels plant a bomb which opens a hole in the ground which allows Antlions to get into the prison and cover their escape.

Good idea, but can't antlions make their own holes perfectly well? Turning off thumpers makes more sense, but since I can't quiet them down adding more might get annoying. The ONE I have already gives me a headache from across the map. It might work. I'll think about it.

Auxor, on 03 December 2010 - 05:06 AM, said:

If you want to slow down the rebels, just do what Breach does where you have a shield door which needs to be hacked at a nearby console. Breach would take like, 2 minutes if it wasn't for the hacking objectives.

I think those sort of objectives are sort of boring. I have a couple (exactly a couple) of similar objectives, but I still can't tell how fast the map will go. That will have to wait until testing. How long do you think maps are supposed to last?

Auxor, on 03 December 2010 - 05:06 AM, said:

The map looks awesome by the way, but the outside section seems a bit empty.

It certainly looks empty, but it's really filled with buried mines. It'll look better once I put down a couple detail props, some scorch marks, and some signs at the edges. Anyone want to help with the signs?

Also, the game crashes when I try to pick up some props. Does anyone know why this is?

[Auxor]

The map doesn't need to to be long, it should be like 10 minutes per round or something if the Rebels get to the end, but its more about replayability than length.

By alcoves, I meant just basically areas slightly away from the main path that encourage the rebels not to speed run through the level, sort of like in Left 4 Dead, where the items would rarely be in the main direct route to the end, they would be in all the little side rooms and areas.

It might crash if you didn't set them to props_dynamic_multiplayer or prop_dynamic_ow. It shouldn't, but if it is just basic prop_dynamic it would be bad for optimisation I think. I wouldn't count me on this though, it's most likely something else.

[Instant Loser]

The map is practically playable at this point. It's fully blocked, triggered, textured, and lit. I still haven't tested the triggers with more than one person, but I'm pretty sure it'll work just fine. Of course, it probably won't.

When I compiled it, at one point it said:

Quote

Object names . . Objects/Maxobjs . . Memory / Maxmem . . Fullness
entdata . . . . . . [variable] . . . . . . . 388758/393216 . . . . (98.9%) . . VERY FULL!

which is sort of scary. I do have a lot of complicated triggers, though. I can probably find ways to get the entity count to about 90% of what it is now, but it might not be a problem. Once the new spawning system comes out I can probably free up a lot of space.

I'll definitely be able to add a helicopter and a strider once they start working (if I have enough entity data).

Suggestions for the team I've come up with while working on this map (I hesitate to put this in an appropriate forum):
1. Fix grates so you can click on them properly. Alternatively, make a tool texture that is invisible, blocks GM clicks, and does not block bullets. If you use a func_brush_ow or something NPCs won't walk on it.
2. Make more GM button textures. Specifically, rollermines, manhack diamonds, AR2, and antlion guards would all be nice for this map.
3. Make physics props stop crashing the game when you pick them up. I had to remove a whole puzzle because of this.
4. Fix weapon and health spawns so they work even when it thinks they're blocked. Alternatively, fix the blocking determination so it actually works.
5. Don't put in func_areaportal_ow if it doesn't work.
6. Make GM orders cause actbusy animations to exit. I'm currently hacking around this for a neat test system I put in one area. It has its share of glitches, but this would halve the number of entities and make it a lot easier to work with. I have no idea how hard this would be.
7. Get thumpers to stop being so loud somehow.
8. Vortigaunts would be nice, but are low priority. They already work, but they have no facial expressions and get real twitchy.
9. The AR2 ammo model is not working in hammer.
10. EXTRA HARD: get stuff working from episodes one and two. Especially hunters. I like hunters.

Oh, yeah; more pictures:





Now I get to find out if my map is fun or not.

[Auxor]

They have Helicopters now, decompile Canals if you want to see how it works.

[Instant Loser]

What I MEANT to say (sorry) was that I'll put in a helicopter if mannable turrets start working.

[Instant Loser]

I've got a version of the map compiled for playtesting. Now what?

[Instant Loser]

I've just added the minimap (thanks for the reminder, Jgoodroad) and it works fine. I've made a minefield sign texture, too:

I made it from scratch, so don't worry about me not having the rights to it.

I seem to have a bad habit of posting everything I'm thinking about at once. I'll try to stop.

Lastly, I'm still confused about how playtests will work. Any help?

[The Joker]

Instant Loser, on 05 December 2010 - 03:03 AM, said:

I've just added the minimap (thanks for the reminder, Jgoodroad) and it works fine. I've made a minefield sign texture, too:

I made it from scratch, so don't worry about me not having the rights to it.

I seem to have a bad habit of posting everything I'm thinking about at once. I'll try to stop.

Lastly, I'm still confused about how playtests will work. Any help?

Once you have all the right things ready for playtesting(an optimized map, minimap, maphtml) then you talk to either AndY or Kilrageous on the Live Chat(theres a button at the top of the screen) then you can guys can talk out the details. If you can, host your own server.