36 replies to this topic

[Sabre]

Coppermantis, on 18 March 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

You can make advanced mechanics really easily like dropships and mounted guns. Searching for prefab packs online yields a lot of good results and I have a few custom ones I can give you if you want them, like a dropship coming in.

Thanks. I prefer to know how and why something works, partly out of curiosity, and partly so I can fix it when it breaks. However, I did as you said and, while I didn't find the pack itself (did find mention of it) I did find a stand alone mounted gun prefab that I will try out today. It is unlikely that I will need a dropship, but thanks for the offer.

ScrooLewse, on 18 March 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

No need for teles. Just make it a doorway. Normal wall on one side, black&lightless void on the other. That'd be a pretty startling transition. Smooth, too.

Won't work as the cupboard need to be standing in the middle of the room so it's obviously not a secret door or something of that nature. Don't worry, I have other plans.

[Sabre]

I was going to play the dev version of overwatch, but for whatever reason, servers won't show up, and manually connecting via console didn't work. Oh well, more mapping.

Day 4 - ish

I've not had another days worth of mapping. A half hour here, an hour there. Here's an update though.

Mostly did some texturing and clean up. I finished off the street, which now only needs a skybox, emplaced gun and some other stuff to be added later. Added the front of factory section as a result.

RL problems have killed my interest, along with the time this is taking, (I haven't got to the main part of the map yet) and stories I've heard about the entity limits of hammer. I considered scrapping the project entirely, and at very least have started cutting scenes. eg. The factory was going to have a scene where the player falls through the floor, and there is a loop all the way back round to the other side of the hole. A defence scene full of func breakables that leaves a pristine building in ruins, and ended with the arrival of a friendly gunship is also out. As is the dramatic reveal of the portal to crazy town/break up of reality. Instead, I'm going to have the fall-through-floor scene lead straight there. A scene where the players are giant and taking cover behind buildings is out as I can't think of a way to limit the player from just running out of the city, or giving them an obvious goal to progress.

[leiftiger]

Sabre, on 20 March 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

I was going to play the dev version of overwatch, but for whatever reason, servers won't show up, and manually connecting via console didn't work. Oh well, more mapping.

They were only up at certain times on saturday and sunday.

Also the entity limit shouldn't freak you out at this stage, it takes quite a lot of work to even fill out the map with that many entities. A map isn't really great just because it has 1000 entities, more for how it plays out.

[ScrooLewse]

Obvious goals... firstly, use color coordination. Give the area a certain (bland) color scheme, then highlight points of interest by breaking said scheme. Players who feel lost or confused will naturally flock to these like moths to a flame.

Secondly, make sure they don't have anywhere else to go. Make all other paths end in either what looks like a bad idea or just a flat-out dead end.

Edited by ScrooLewse, 21 March 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[Sabre]

Day 5 -ish Something something something.

Again, not a days work, but rather a bunch of 1 hour chunks here and there.

I added a skybox. The way I built the street made it difficult to add it properly, so it's a bit of a hack job. Still, the map is sealed, and the outdoor area is in it's own little bubble. I also textured all the dev areas.

I thought of adding back the loop in the factory. My taste for hazard stripes means what was once decoration, I might use for a "this is something of interest" short hand. I added the long corridor scene, which I wanted to be an optical illusion, but I'm not sure if the textures give it away, but using the white/black void wouldn't have the same impact.

[ScrooLewse]

Since you didn't put in a legitimate "day's" work on 4 or 5, does that mean the timeline is extended? You could always just not map until you have a clear day, so that you would actually be putting in a whole day's worth of mapping. For measurement's purposes of course.

Btw sorry I was gone. Appendix lopped-out and all that.

[Sabre]

ScrooLewse, on 30 March 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Since you didn't put in a legitimate "day's" work on 4 or 5, does that mean the timeline is extended? You could always just not map until you have a clear day, so that you would actually be putting in a whole day's worth of mapping. For measurement's purposes of course.

Btw sorry I was gone. Appendix lopped-out and all that.

Ouch. Hope you're ok. What happened? Did it burst?

As for the time scale. There is no cut off date, and those 'days' were often a day or 2, but yes, it will be extended. That said, I do hope to get back to mapping proper now.

[ScrooLewse]

Sabre, on 02 April 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Ouch. Hope you're ok. What happened? Did it burst?

As for the time scale. There is no cut off date, and those 'days' were often a day or 2, but yes, it will be extended. That said, I do hope to get back to mapping proper now.

Glad to know you're getting back to full mapping days. As for the appendix, it was a long, weird ordeal. But no, it did not burst. I'll tell you more via PM if you're interested.

[Sabre]

ScrooLewse, on 02 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Glad to know you're getting back to full mapping days. As for the appendix, it was a long, weird ordeal. But no, it did not burst. I'll tell you more via PM if you're interested.

Not needed.

http://steamcommunit...3850?tab=public

[ScrooLewse]

Ooh... what's that?

[Sabre]

ScrooLewse, on 03 April 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Ooh... what's that?

I'm about to say in-

Day 6 - Death of the quickmap

I added lighting, nodes, encounters. The lighting was a pain because sometimes the area wouldn't light, mostly due to the models getting in the way, so I disabled shadows, and the light would show, but the ceiling and in some cases, the model itself, would appear completely black. Also, the outdoor areas were pretty dark and didn't know how to tweak the enviromental light to work properly.

I added the prefab mounted gun. It worked great.

As I said, I don't like moving brushes. So when I discovered I didn't have enough room for an area I added a new room, a cut idea for a levellord style "Everyone is tiny." This fit perfectly after the long hallway too. The long hallway was an optical illusion where what looks like a long hallway is actually a normal hallway that gets smaller until you are crawling like in a vent. Having it lead to a giant room worked well. I originally ditched the levellord idea (which was going to be a kitchen top) due to the lack of textures to pull it off. The living room works ok, but it's not great.

Ultimately though, I decided to abandon the map. I will keep the file, and might work on it later, but don't count on it. It is the latest in a huge number of failed projects. The street area worked great, but the rest was bad thing after minor mistake after edit. I did learn alot, and feel I was perhaps over ambisious with the project. I still like the idea of a normal HL2 map suddenly going crazy, but the execution, I feel, was terrible. Remember, I wasn't expecting a great map to begin with. At this point it might not be worth salvaging.

I think I will plan better, have more of map written down on paper or in my head before I start. The random enemy spawner worked, but was ultimately limited as it didn't make much of a difference. The only time it did was in the levellord area, where there was many places to spawn, so not knowing where and what enemy would be was fun, but when the spawn is 2 or 3 places within the same area, not very exciting.

So, where to go from here?

I did think of having another go, but a different idea. I have a belief in a design theory of picking 1 location and focusing on it to bring out the flavour. It also has to be based on something in Half Life 2. I want it to be indoors.

-Nova Prospect springs to mind, but I'm not sure I want to do that as it might be boring for me. Also there are plenty of Nova Prospect maps out there. It would be the most straight forward.

-Razor Train. When I think of FPS maps, stuff where there is some kind of boarding action are always great. We all remember that UT map with the train, or the UT04 map where you raid the missile convoy in the desert, and Lost Planet 2 has a few of these, and they are pretty good. The problem is the background. I have seen HL1 and UT maps that have the scrolling background, so it should be doable in source. I just don't know how. I'll have the train in a really long tunnel or underground. So it doesn't even have to look great. I won't have to worry about signposting as much as, being a train, there is only 1 way to go, and that's forwards. The textures are mostly citadel so all should be fine.

-Horde. I hate survival maps. The problem with them was it was often trial and error of finding the right corner to hide in. I liked how games like Mass Effect have set about combating this, by having objectives you have to do, and by having an end to bloody thing. I also like how the SP DotA like "Swarm" handled buying weapons with kills. My goal would be a map that is winnable in 10-15 minutes, with objectives you have to complete, maybe some kind of buy system. Each buy would get a never ending supply of that thing, so you don't have to worry about running out of ammo for that shotgun you bought. The focus would be on escalating waves, interaction with the environment, and moving.

Or I could do none, or keep doing my crap map. Let me know what you think.

Edited by Sabre, 05 April 2012 - 02:48 AM.

[leiftiger]

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

-Razor Train. When I think of FPS maps, stuff where there is some kind of boarding action are always great. We all remember that UT map with the train, or the UT04 map where you raid the missile convoy in the desert, and Lost Planet 2 has a few of these, and they are pretty good. The problem is the background. I have seen HL1 and UT maps that have the scrolling background, so it should be doable in source. I just don't know how. I'll have the train in a really long tunnel or underground. So it doesn't even have to look great. I won't have to worry about signposting as much as, being a train, there is only 1 way to go, and that's forwards. The textures are mostly citadel so all should be fine.

Train levels are doable in source, it's just a matter of a moving looping texture. However if you do decide to make a train map, I'd suggest making the outside of the train more dynamic. Uncharted 2 has best train level I've ever seen so far, mostly because it's so dynamic. E.g. you could possibly add moving objects that'd be seen as the train passing them, but in reality they train is static and the object is moving.

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

-Horde. I hate survival maps. The problem with them was it was often trial and error of finding the right corner to hide in. I liked how games like Mass Effect have set about combating this, by having objectives you have to do, and by having an end to bloody thing. I also like how the SP DotA like "Swarm" handled buying weapons with kills. My goal would be a map that is winnable in 10-15 minutes, with objectives you have to complete, maybe some kind of buy system. Each buy would get a never ending supply of that thing, so you don't have to worry about running out of ammo for that shotgun you bought. The focus would be on escalating waves, interaction with the environment, and moving.

A bit of self-advertisement here, but I'm always short on maps for my zombie survival. So by any means you could make one for it (if you really want to). Zombie spawning is not a requirement by the map, since the gamemode is supposed to spawn them dynamically with the help of some FGD entities.

Edited by leiftiger, 05 April 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[ScrooLewse]

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

I did think of having another go, but a different idea. I have a belief in a design theory of picking 1 location and focusing on it to bring out the flavour. It also has to be based on something in Half Life 2. I want it to be indoors.

Oh well. It was nice to see someone give it a shot, but I to be honest, I couldn't see anyone handling the workload you gave yourself in just 5 days. As for giving it another go, try a 2-week schedule, and make sure to clear entire days for mapping before you try to put-in an entire "day" of mapping. Another thing that would help is to structure the hell out of those 14 days, and follow your "battleplan" relentlessly. If you didn't complete something, you drop it once it's time is over and only come back to it to fix-up the bits that are required to make the part you're currently working on function. Then leave the last couple of days for polishing and patching-up the glaring holes in your map.

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

-Nova Prospect springs to mind, but I'm not sure I want to do that as it might be boring for me. Also there are plenty of Nova Prospect maps out there. It would be the most straight forward.

Yeah, Nova Prospect is a little stale. How about the white forest from EP:2? Or the coastline HL2's Sand Traps and the Lost Coast?

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

-Razor Train. When I think of FPS maps, stuff where there is some kind of boarding action are always great. We all remember that UT map with the train, or the UT04 map where you raid the missile convoy in the desert, and Lost Planet 2 has a few of these, and they are pretty good. The problem is the background. I have seen HL1 and UT maps that have the scrolling background, so it should be doable in source. I just don't know how. I'll have the train in a really long tunnel or underground. So it doesn't even have to look great. I won't have to worry about signposting as much as, being a train, there is only 1 way to go, and that's forwards. The textures are mostly citadel so all should be fine.

Its a little tricky to make a train scene non-repetitive. Make sure you've amassed interesting ideas for it before you decide to dive-in.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend it.

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

-Horde. I hate survival maps. The problem with them was it was often trial and error of finding the right corner to hide in. I liked how games like Mass Effect have set about combating this, by having objectives you have to do, and by having an end to bloody thing. I also like how the SP DotA like "Swarm" handled buying weapons with kills. My goal would be a map that is winnable in 10-15 minutes, with objectives you have to complete, maybe some kind of buy system. Each buy would get a never ending supply of that thing, so you don't have to worry about running out of ammo for that shotgun you bought. The focus would be on escalating waves, interaction with the environment, and moving.

Objectives would work fantastically. Something similar to the final battle in EP:2 where you have to defend a Rebel fort from the Combine until help arrives. Maybe Gordon Freeman in his sexy muscle car or something. So instead of cowering in a corner, you would have several buildings that you would have to defend from the Overwatch occupation or just being flat-out razed by Striders. It could randomly decide which building to attack next, and whether to do it with Soldiers (with chopper cover later-on if the group is large), Striders and Hunters, or a Gunship (or two). Soldiers would capture a central area in the building like control points in TF2, Striders and Gunships would simply break the buildings if they got close enough.

Sabre, on 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

Or I could do none, or keep doing my crap map. Let me know what you think.

You say its beyond repair, do you? If your vision of what it should be is not worth the effort required to make the map functional, then don't do it.

Edited by ScrooLewse, 09 April 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[Sabre]

I'm still around. The quick map project isn't dead, but I have been working on other things, and by that I mean sitting around eating pizza.

As for the map, and so far it's looking like the survival map is most likely, assuming it happens at all, which I'm not sure of yet. As said, my preference is for action heavy walk through maps, so likely it will be the players bouncing around the map, as opposed to sitting through x many waves. I also don't want to players sitting in a corner because of respawning enemies, but I don't want them to just clear the map, and go to the next objective.

As said, I want to get the map down on paper before I touch hammer, as well as plan the look of the map. I'm envious of mappers who can use existing resources to make new enviroments. A perfect example is in Resident Evil 5s Prison map. It looks like it's own thing, but if you stop and pay attention, you notice it's all assets from different parts of the campaign. The bricks from temple, the rocks from mines, the wooden planks from mines ect. I don't have that kind of imagination so I wanted to keep it set in the HL2 setting. It also seems having an outside is unavoidible, and so I will likely have the map set at night, mostly because I can't get the enviromental lights to work right. Even with these limitations, I will try and create something.

I still have to work out how to spawn and exact amount of guys, and how to control where they spawn. Not to mention how to make the map fun.

Edited by Sabre, 21 April 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[ScrooLewse]

I still think something in the vein of the final battle in EP2 would be fantastic, but if you don't like outside, why not make the setting something like mines in EP2 where you hold the line while the Vorts revive Alex. Only add Combine and have them protect multiple objectives scattered about. Maybe half way through they can have an antlion guardian battle and give a couple players bugbait.

I'd love to just sit down with you and plan it-out. Possibly even sketch a few arenas.

[Sabre]

The project is officially off. I don't feel like mapping at the moment, and want to use the time to do other projects anyway. Sorry for wasting everybodies time.

[Sabre]

So, while I have been learning 3D modeling for my own games and projects, I have been working on maps.

I decided to do a recreation of the mansion from Resident Evil. Currently the big problem is that HL2 doesn't have the textures to get it to the standard I want. I might use some L4D. This is ethically murky, but valve has been ok with ports between games so I hope some wallpapers from L4D will be ok. What's funny is that a friend who loves L4D said I should make it for that instead of Half Life. Now I think maybe he was right.

Currently it's just brush work, so I might try doing that.

Speaking of L4D, there was a map I played recently called "Let's Build a Rocket" which is a fun map based around building stuff. While a good idea, and amazing well executed technically, the map itself was poorly designed and had exploits all over the place. Usually I hate tower defence maps in FPS games because they tend to be, well, crap, but I think that a map using these kind of "build stuff at pre set points" systems could work.

Edited by Sabre, 19 August 2012 - 12:30 PM.