27 replies to this topic

[elite879]

Sorry for double threading, I just got another idea.

I'm not a big fan of reviving as a NESCESSITY. Yes reviving a team mate to get more points is good but reviving or you have one less player doesn't appeal to me much, Although this is just my opinoin.

Anyway in the game Battlefield: Bad Company 2 the rush game mode runs on a ticket system giving the attacking team a limited number of tickets and the defenders infinite. When a guy on the attacking team dies the team loses a ticket. When all the tickets get to zero and all the attackers are dead, the defenders automaticly win.

Putting this into OverWatch the Rebels will have a limited number of tickets and of course the overwatch wont matter. Now the rebels will lose tickets when they die and have a very looong respawn, this is to compensate for the "losing a team member badly affects you" that the reviving gave you. But the rebels can get tickets back by reviving a person and completing an objective.

So lets make a scenario to sum this up:-

The map is Breach.

The rebels start the game with 15 tickets. They gather their grenades and start lobbing them at the generator. Then the Overwatch sends out his assorted troops and mows down the resistance. All 7 of them die. Now they only have 8 tickets left and have a 15 second respawn allowing the Overwatch to gather up his men. The rebels charge out of their spawn with their guns blazing and blow up the generator. They get rewarded with 10 tickets to keep fighting on.

Moving on a bit. They've now destroyed the second generator and the total death count is 11 plus they got 5 tickets for destroying the objective. This gives them 11 tickets. They go and take out the final objective which gives them no tickets. They have to run to the exit now while anyone that does die or is dead can no longer respawn although they can be revived.

That's the game over. The rebels scraped through with just 1 ticket left and 2 guys alive.


So does this idea sound good to anyone?

P.S. Sorry if I wasn't supposed to reveal so much info about the game's maps and stuff.

[Twitwi]

I'm not a big fan of spectating and what if there is 3 newbies in one game (with 8 players) they will eat all the tickets and leave the good players (who just died) in spectatemode. waiting till it resets.

people will get more aggressive towards the new players, and admins will maybe say, goodbye to them (kicked)
and they will never learn, (I might have over reacted but that is worse case scenario)

[elite879]

Actualy that is a good point.

I didn't think about this as in BFBC2 it was hard to see if your team lost from new guys playing the game badly or if it was a general team fail. It's because wih up to 16 people a team you got 100 tickets or more and as you can imagine 1 guy failing at the game hard barely dents the count.

I guess the system in that aspect it somewhat flawed. But then as I said there is also REVIVING!

This would mean if you do die and have to sit in spectator mode a player can revive AND you get a ticket back meaning if your reviver dies just as you get up he can respawn and the game keeps going.

[Halsh]

The ticket system was also employed in Empires. I found it annoying at times, as the other team would just camp an area and entrench themselves such that you cannot remove them without significant losses. It all depends on how it's deployed, and as long as you have a choice. In Overwatch it's a much closer-nit group than in Empires, so your chances of being revived are significantly higher.

I would have the revive system work as such (not mentioning tickets):

When your HP hits 0, you are presented with 2 options: wait to be revived (no ticket loss) or revive now (-1 ticket). When you hit 0 tickets, the Revive Now would grey out; no auto-win for the Overwatch, I found that to be extremely infuriating where we were in a stalemate and then an idiot uses that last ticket and BAM, instalose.


The problem I foresee with the ticket system is that there will be people, whether intentional or not, who will eat up the tickets and ruin the game for the rest of their team.


I would be interested to see a mockup of this in a few games to see how it effects it.


Edit: just saw the new posts. About "Can't see who screwed the team" - the death count clearly displays how many times you died, and if you know that NewbieA hasn't been in your LoS the entire game, you will assume they suck supremely and treat them as such.

[elite879]

Once again my all brilliant idea has been punctured. Although don't worry, I'm not mad, I appreciate it.

I guess a few mockup games with this kinda of thing would be a good idea. A server with files that you have to download with this change, the feature is only on that server and when you join another server it's disabled.

Also I like the idea of you can choose whether or not to wait with the options, that will help for people that hate respawns.

[BMT]

Being a fan of Bad Company 2 I can see how this idea has its merits, I'd definitely want it to be kept up for discussion and possibly tested out. I like how it still promotes reviving teammates as the tickets are replenished upon revival, but as Halsh has said it could have its disadvantages. Although I would hope that players of Overwatch will take the time to help any newbie teammate and ensure they don't go messing up the ticket count.

[Shisnopi]

I've always preferred the ticket system over the "one life to live" system because it allows for mistakes and people can recover from them.

Newbies may tick off experienced players by emptying tickets but how about this. Each player starts off with 2 tickets(lives) and a community pool of 10 or so tickets. The first time you die you have to respawn in 15 seconds regardless if someone can revive you ( assuming this is like BFBC2 where you can spawn on teammates) and get right back into the action. Now, the second time you die you get a choice(as mentioned by Halsh) to respawn into the pool or wait another 30 seconds before a forced respawn.

Now the major idea I going for is gaining personal tickets.

Say you get 5 headshots in a row, the game will reward you with a ticket. 10 kills without dying, another ticket. Maybe you find yourself to be the helping type and revive your teammates, revive 5 allies and get a ticket.

Like Killstreak Rewards but something that will benefit you and your team in the long run. Because if you have your own personal pool of lives then you still have a fighting chance to win the map and help out your teammates.

[Pattom]

I think Shisnopi is on to something. There's a safety net for new players, or an unlucky team, but there are strong rewards for skilled play. You'd have to test it a bit, but it sounds like that would be enough to prevent "ticket-sponges" from bleeding a team out.

[AndY]

The ticket system seems interesting, but could use a few changes.

For starters, BFBC2 rounds are much longer than typical OW rounds. Also, when players are reviving, it gives the Overwatch side time to spawn some forces and prepare a next wave.

This is where the "everybody gets one" idea comes to mind. We could give each player a single "get out of jail free card" at the beginning of a round, which would either toss him back at the original spawn, or a special map-specific respawn area. This makes it less of a commodity, and players will have to be careful in deciding when to use it. Also, one per player means that no one player can eat up all the tickets for the entire team.

To balance this, reviving could have a "reward", for example: two revives = +1 ticket for you. This way, players are encouraged to revive others and if they happen to die in a remote area far away from the group, they have the ability to respawn and not be stuck in spec for an entire round.

Thoughts?

[Halsh]

AndY, on 16 July 2010 - 09:50 AM, said:

<insert videos>
The ticket system seems interesting, but could use a few changes.

For starters, BFBC2 rounds are much longer than typical OW rounds. Also, when players are reviving, it gives the Overwatch side time to spawn some forces and prepare a next wave.

This is where the "everybody gets one" idea comes to mind. We could give each player a single "get out of jail free card" at the beginning of a round, which would either toss him back at the original spawn, or a special map-specific respawn area. This makes it less of a commodity, and players will have to be careful in deciding when to use it. Also, one per player means that no one player can eat up all the tickets for the entire team.

To balance this, reviving could have a "reward", for example: two revives = +1 ticket for you. This way, players are encouraged to revive others and if they happen to die in a remote area far away from the group, they have the ability to respawn and not be stuck in spec for an entire round.

Thoughts?

That sounds really good. I'd personally propose a cap (maybe 2-3) on the amount of tickets each person could get, so that you still get rewarded but you don't end up farming the overwatch for tickets (1 person sits outside the door, 2 block the door with sheilds, guy dies, they revive, repeat until bored). I'd also say the revive should depend on the map. If the map creator makes the start area unable to be entered (an insta-kill area is over the spawn) then the respawn would have to be a little side room, built specifically by the mapper. If they're tied in with the objectives, then the respawns could move up as they progress; but personally I like the fact they'd have to walk from the start to meet up with everyone else, it allows the overwatch the oppertunity to intercept them.

[Shisnopi]

Halsh, on 16 July 2010 - 10:08 AM, said:

That sounds really good. I'd personally propose a cap (maybe 2-3) on the amount of tickets each person could get, so that you still get rewarded but you don't end up farming the overwatch for tickets (1 person sits outside the door, 2 block the door with shields, guy dies, they revive, repeat until bored). I'd also say the revive should depend on the map. If the map creator makes the start area unable to be entered (an insta-kill area is over the spawn) then the respawn would have to be a little side room, built specifically by the mapper. If they're tied in with the objectives, then the respawns could move up as they progress; but personally I like the fact they'd have to walk from the start to meet up with everyone else, it allows the overwatch the opportunity to intercept them.

I see where camping could be a huge problem. A cap would help but overall I think if the OW is a good enough player he could get around that. If you let them be, they either move out and relize you're building up points for a massive army or stay there and get overwhelmed. Because if revived players don't start with full health, they'll fall back down in no time.

Another solution would be is having 2 Revives allowed for each Ticket. Kinda like Gears of War and L4D where when you're revived for the third time, if you get knocked down again, you're dead for good. Make every 3 revives earn a player a ticket so that they don't cheat the system.

[braddollar]

I think that if something like this were implemented, there would need to be sort of long timer for using the respawn option. Such as 90 seconds or something. So that reviving is encouraged more, and the OW can still wipe the players out in one swoop without having to worry about somebody tapping their respawn quickly.

[Pattom]

braddollar, on 16 July 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:

I think that if something like this were implemented, there would need to be sort of long timer for using the respawn option. Such as 90 seconds or something. So that reviving is encouraged more, and the OW can still wipe the players out in one swoop without having to worry about somebody tapping their respawn quickly.

True, a long respawn time would encourage reviving teammates where possible, but 90 seconds seems too long. I imagine that for the average player there'd be little difference between waiting that long to respawn and waiting an indeterminate amount of time for someone to come revive you, and one of the benefits of choosing to respawn should be that you will rejoin the game sooner than if you had waited to be revived. Maybe a 30 to 45 second period would be more balanced?

[A1win]

The ticket system sounds interesting but I have a feeling it still has less advantages than disadvantages, as it could be so easily abused in almost all of its forms.

With our current plans, not yet implemented in the game, the number of times a player could get revived would depend on the amount of adrenaline shots (or whatever they end up being) the player is carrying, something around 1-3 to begin with, depending on the map. When a player gets revived, an adrenaline shot is consumed from that player, not from the reviver. Players could also trade the adrenaline shots, so the reviver can then give more of them to the revived player if he thinks he'll die more, which would at the same time help the team and be kind of an ego-boost: "Here, take this. You'll need it more than I do (because I'm so awesome)."

Only maps with short rounds (around 5 minutes) would use the no-respawn-allowed system where the only way to come back to the game would be by getting revived. For longer maps, we have discussed rescue closets, and perhaps regular respawn rooms for some larger maps.

With these additions, the ticket system doesn't really seem necessary to me anymore, but is still a good idea to keep in mind. And as said, these are just plans and ideas which can easily be changed, so feel free to keep discussing them.

[Sir Quissibell of Nargeles]

AndY, on 16 July 2010 - 09:50 AM, said:

The ticket system seems interesting, but could use a few changes.

For starters, BFBC2 rounds are much longer than typical OW rounds. Also, when players are reviving, it gives the Overwatch side time to spawn some forces and prepare a next wave.

This is where the "everybody gets one" idea comes to mind. We could give each player a single "get out of jail free card" at the beginning of a round, which would either toss him back at the original spawn, or a special map-specific respawn area. This makes it less of a commodity, and players will have to be careful in deciding when to use it. Also, one per player means that no one player can eat up all the tickets for the entire team.

To balance this, reviving could have a "reward", for example: two revives = +1 ticket for you. This way, players are encouraged to revive others and if they happen to die in a remote area far away from the group, they have the ability to respawn and not be stuck in spec for an entire round.

Thoughts?

AndY has the best idea.

[Tweevle]

Maybe there could be something like "rescue closets" from Left 4 Dead, where you have the rebels respawn in a Combine pod or field cell and their team mates have to let them out.

[Shisnopi]

The hero closet was something I originally thought of, but then I started to think of how if the map doesn't have dynamic "closets" the OW could easily blockade the rebels from getting near their allies.

[Ranma]

I've never played these games so I don't fully understand. If someone stays dead, and no one revives him in time, they respawn from the start using a ticket? Is this what the idea is?

If that's the case, what about the Resistance starts with no tickets and then they get tickets from completing objectives or killing a set amount of enemies? Like, doing an objective gives 1 ticket, killing 20 enemies gives 1 ticket. With that, the usage of tickets can't entirely be blamed on the people who died, but can also be blamed on the living players who failed to revive their teammates.

Is that something, or am I way off the base, here.

[Shisnopi]

You kinda have the idea. Tickets are just another way of saying that the team has a pool of extra lives. The only problem I see with your idea is the fact that if someone is dead and the team just completed an objective, that player can respawn and waste the ticket even though he didn't contributed to getting the ticket in the first place.

[Sir Quissibell of Nargeles]

I think you should have one life and one alone just like zombie master, it tends to get annoying when you get shot in the back by a guy whom you thought you had pwned with a headshot.